Vista

[Albereth]

Anyone installed it yet? And did you go 32 or 64 bit?

[sss]

shame on you for even thinking such things

[Brawler]

nope, im not planning on getting it until dx10 is needed or sp1 is out.
i am building a new pc for a friend tomorrow with Vista Home Basic, will check it out.

[Ruslan74]

Waiting for work to get their Ultimate copy and then I will give it a bash. We have the Business package but it lacks all the multimedia functionality.

But as Brawler said, its a NO NO for games yet. Drivers unoptimized and the sound API was broken by MS thus negating any fancy EAX card you might have to stereo.

[rainy]

If you get it, beware of the Upgrade versions. Rather get the System Builder version. Upgrade versions, contrary to earlier Windows versions, do not allow for a clean install. You always have to upgrade from an existing XP or 2000.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/930985/en-us

Me, I'm gonna stick with XP for now. I don't think Vista will be mandatory any time soon.

[WingNut]

Some interesting reading
Vista DRM (http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/%7Epgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html)

[Albereth]

Umm - as far as I am aware there are two disks - a 32 and a 64 bit disk. What gets activated depends on your install key.

And I have the Ultimate all singing and dancing version - but do I go 32 or 64. I heard there are a shortage of 64 bit drivers and a quick scan of nvidia shows they have drivers from 5 Jan.

But then again I have 30 days to decide - so quite a bit of backing up before I load the thing.

[TG]

Hmm... while catchy it does sound,
The hype around Vista makes me frown.
I think I'll stand back for awhile,
and let the MS bug fixes abound. :D

[stoke]

A drop in price would not only be nice.
1000 bucks for basic is one hefty vice.

[TG]

Pricey that product is indeed
I certainly won't be following the lead.

[GeroW4lll]

395

I oppose DRM and TMP and vista is full of it. Vista is just one more way for the Borg to assimilate us.

[Thumponius]

When opening the Windows
the Vista is broad and clear,
unless the Kyota accord is enforced
the cost of the view will be dear.

[doobiwan]

I think folks do over do,
The DRM hallabaloo,
Vista is not currently a pressing need,
Home Server FTW indeed!
When all your toys together it does nit,
Even notice DRM you won't one little bit.

[SaintMg]

what is DRM and TPR?

[Brawler]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Rights_Management

[Albereth]

Well I have installed Vista 64 bit as a test. It picked up the nvidia drivers with no problem. It doesn't seem to have noticed the soundblaster audigy in the machine.

I'll keep you posted.

Oh - clean install onto a harddrive in Cullen Doom's machine.

[Albereth]

Okay - a quick search and one download later and I have sound.

Next trick is to see if BF2142 install and plays

[Albereth]

2142 installs even though it warns that it has only been tested under Vista 32. Played single player and it seems a lot smoother.

Don't seem to have VOIP but that seems to be a sound card issue not 2142.

Enough for tonight

[Scooby_Doo16]

i'm pretty sure drivers etc will get fixed and stuff pretty quickly. :) will prob get it with my new pc i will build in 2-3 months time.

[Albereth]

Sure they will but the big concern is that when installing BF2142 it said that it had been tested under Vista 32, not under Vista 64.

[GeroW4lll]

Albereth M$ broke the entire sound card interface when they built vista. I recently heard there are patches available but that all the nice features of your audigy is useless under it. You should not get anything better than stereo at the best of times. The problem should be resolved when Creative rewrites their entire driver system to fit the new interface. then only if the interface is complete and all that. So it might improve in a while but it might take a while to be comparable to XP also.

DRM is for Digital Restrictions Management. Some claim it's for Digital Rights Management, but don't let them fool you. "DRM is an example of a malicious feature - a feature designed to hurt the user of the software..." Richard Stallman (http://polishlinux.org/gnu/drm-vista-and-your-rights/). On one web page I read Microsoft admitted that it's more about enforcing their business model than preventing piracy. TMP is more or less the same thing or that part of the DRM thats built into the hardware and means technical media protection.

In the process of claiming to protect media against piracy, they are limiting the rights I have today that is known as Fair Use (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use) in the USA, but is allowed under common law here. For example if I buy a cd and don't want to use it in my car cause I'm scared it will be damaged by vibration or heat, it is legal to make a copy to keep in the car. Also if I buy a cd and want to hear the music on my mp3 player it's legal to rip it to mp3 for that purpose. Or to make my own mix tape/CD of the songs I like from my whole collection of cd's. Also to make a tape for my old Walkman. I could even have stuff from my cd collection cut to vinyl for my house party if I like to play DJ as a turntablist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turntablism). All this will be impossible under DRM and I'll have to buy 2 cd's (backup for the car), the mp3 from itunes or something, and the old media types will be impossible to get.

In Vista this means that your original HD-DVD's or Blu-Ray disks that you legally bought won't work unless you have the right screen connected. And when you do have the screen it might still reduce the quality of the playback to minimum resolution if your settings aren't at maximum DRM. And when your settings are at maximum DRM there will be hundreds of programs that can't run cause they don't have the money to have their titles registered with Microsoft. Same with the parental control for games that Vista is intorducing.

In short, Vista will give Microsoft the power to kill all their competition, the same way they did Netscape, but much easier. Sort of at the press of a button.

[rainy]

DRM has never been about preventing piracy. If it were, then it wouldn't hurt honest, paying customers while the pirates just smile and circumvent it.

[TG]

Basically, it's all this crap surrounding the DRM - which probably wouldn't affect me much anyway - which has turned me off vista.
I don't care if it's affecting a feature that I wouldn't use much - if at all - the point is that there is still a part of the system that is intentionally crippled.

[GeroW4lll]

Slashdot has an update (http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/12/2212248) about Vista problems with FPS games in particular. Most prominent one's that don't work include CounterStrike, Half-Life 2, Doom 3. and F.E.A.R.

These include crashes and low frame rate and is attributed to the huge changes in graphics software that Vista requires.

[Scooby_Doo16]

Give it time :) Howmuch time? Who knows, not much i hope.

[Stool]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2007/20070202.jpg (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/02/02)
Penny Arcade @ Penny-Arcade.com (http://www.penny-arcade.com/)

[TG]

:rofl: Brilliant. Now why'd I stop reading PA? :p

[Sminty]

My XP seems to be working fine. My laptop has this sticker on it that says "Designed for Windows XP - Windows Vista Capable"...so now I wonder why I ever wanted an operating system that a pc needed to be designed for in the first place but I think that when I have to make a choice between "designed for" and "capable of" I'm going to stick with the "designed for" bitty and when I buy a new machine then maybe that one will be "designed for" vista.

[Vortex]

I tried out Vista on an office PC, but got too irritated by the constant interruptions and irritating things it does in the name of 'protecting the customer' that I formatted and went back to XP..

Apparently games are on average 15% slower with the current drivers etc. on Vista, but then again 95.245% of all stats are made up on the spot! ;)

[Darnit696]

I'm not doing it. XP works fine why change? So that someone can try and control the content of my PC for me? I'm not 5 years old.

[doobiwan]

Unfortunately i's not MS dictating the DRM content protection, it's the content providers, Specifically ****ers like Sony and Disney. (Side note, HD-DVD DRM is optional, BR it's mandatory, which is why MS went with HD-DVD)

If they didn't put it in you wouldn't be able to play any new content period. On the other hand, that's what Live anywhere and Home Server are about. Once you have a universal id across all your platforms (PC, console, music player etc) and a central point of management you can move your drm'ed media wherever you want.

I'm not saying I like DRM, I think it sucks. Worst case scenario? AACS has already been cracked ;)

There's never been a good reason to by an MS operating system as soon as it's released, and drivers have always suffered for a while. I'm glad to see Vista is doing worse than XP though, MS needs to show a bit of humility and customer love (price cut, better support ;) ) When I upgrade my PC, I'll look at upgrading to Vista, but I'm in no rush.

[GeroW4lll]

About those content providers: EMI recently announced that they will no longer be including content protection on cd's or dvd's they sell. They've noticed a distinct increase in sales ever since, but this might be a coincidence.

RIAA claims P2P decreases cd sales. This statistical study found that that is not true. (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070212-8813.html) They conclude that in the worst case scenario, 0.7% of lost sales could be blamed on P2P music sharing. that leaves 74 million cd's unsold, left on the shelf that they can't blame on sharing. This means they over estimated their market in the first place and now they're looking for a scapegoat. They probably sold more cd's because of the free advertising that downloaded music gives them.

RIAA has also now indirectly admitted (http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2007/02/riaa-adopts-new-policy-offers-pre-doe.html) to having sewed the wrong ppl for sharing music on the web, by asking ISP's to help them find cases where they've sewed innocent ppl.

This is their kewlest trick though: Hire Hiphop artists to make mixtapes (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/18/magazine/18djdrama.t.html?_r=1&ref=slashdot&oref=slogin), then send in the SWAT teams to catch them for music piracy!

So since they are nasty, why should we allow Vista on our pc's to Manage their Digital Rights?

[Sminty]

I' wary of saying I won't migrate to Vista. Currently I don't need it but I also remember a LOT of people saying "why do I need windows 95? My MS-DOS/Win 3.11 works just fine!". Currently there isn't a great need to jump on the bandwagon and I don't see a mad dash happening to get hold of it. The thing is that we all know we will eventually all be using it or will this be the first MS OS to be rejected by the public (like we should have done with 98 but didn't).
So at this point I am seeing my "upgrade" as a necessary evil that I will put off for now but not for long. In this game it pays to stay current even if its simply because everybody is doing it.
Consider why we all bought what used to be called "IBM compatible" machines. Its a debateable subject at the moment but years back the Mac OS FAR outstripped the MS OS which was even been showed up by OS/2 Warp (quick flashback down memory lane there). But still MS stuff flew off the shelves and there is a simple reason for that....its more readily available and everybody is doing it....ironically part of the great success of the MS OS's is piracy. I know I bought my first 486 based simply on the fact that I didn't know anybody with a Mac who I could copy games from.

And just to make this post even longer and include the whole DRM thing into it. I have to say that too many businesses haven't considered how much (amateur) piracy has actually boosted thier businesses. I'm not talking about these syndicates that churn out thousands of pirate DVD'd and package them to look like the real deal and sell them at the nearest street corner. I'm talking about when one bloke makes a copy for his friend....its like free advertising....sure the revenue for that one game has been lost but its more than likely that person wouldn't have bought that game to start with. My first exposue to ID soft for example was through pirated versions of DOOM. I grew to respect the gaming style of these guys....nobody builds an atmosphere as well as these guys. I seriously doubt I would have looked forward to and bought my copy of DooM 3 if I hadn't had that earlier exposure.

What was my point again?

[rainy]

Sminty, do you ever have a point? ;)

I said from the beginning, I am not going to go Vista until it is necessary. I am fairly sure that Microsoft will release DX10 for XP sooner or later, seeing that Vista is not exactly flying off the shelves right now and there's a crapload of problems for gamers. I will have to familiarize myself with Vista at some stage purely because of my profession. Because I can already tell you that it won't be long until the first of my customers gets a new PC with Vista on it.

[doobiwan]

Unfortunately I don't think you'll ever see dx10 on XP, one of the key differences after the unified shaders is the new Vista non-exclusive driver model, which just won't work on XP.

[gus]

I also do not think we shall see DX10 on XP. It would simply not make marketing sense for Microsoft to do that, no matter the technical aspects.

[SlappY]

I have procured an "Evaluation" copy from a mate, gonna chuck it on my laptop and see what all the fuss is about.

[doobiwan]

good luck ;)

I've got a Vista Theme running on my XP machine, so I'm in no hurry :p

[N3ddy]

I don't understand it.... I pay my taxes, help old llamas across the Andes, keep my ear hair neatly trimmed and am a paid-up member of the Subterranean Mountain Climbing Association of Godwanaland... Yet, despite my law-abiding nature the power-that-is gave me a fricking copy of Vista pre-installed on my new work lap-top! Nothing, and I mean NOTHING works on it! :mad: Not even Vista likes Vista! I needed to upgrade - ok, I was just sick of lugging my desk-top to LANs - for work, and I'm left waiting for everything to find a way of talking to this psychotic fricking OS!:cry:

[Ruslan74]

I have recently re-upgraded my PC after selling my old PS2 & GC. So I just got the barebones mobo, E6600 & 1GB PC5400 RAM. Still had the old SATA2 drives from my defunct PC so I resumed to install Vista Business on it. 1 hour later I was surfing getting Vista updates and installing a temporary AV plus copying my old files from my spare PC.

Thus far had no issues with the games I have tried ( Titan Quest, BF2412, C&C 3 and Rise of Legends ). I am mostly into the Vista arena due to the future releases of games which will support LIVE Anywhere.

Thus far Vista has easily suited my needs for a basic PC for internet access & occasional gaming. No worries here.

[N3ddy]

It looks very pretty and for a magpie like me that certainly counts for something! Just been told, though, that the folks who install/ maintain/ repair/ reinstall my medical aid electronic submission program are waiting on something from Microsoft before the program will work with Vista. Either I go live on the street or stick with XP til it's resolved!

[Darnit696]

N3DDY!!!!! MAN!! its good to see you again! :woot:

[N3ddy]

Sigh... I know! It's just SO tough being an Elvis-impersonator on the East Rand, I hardly have any time to myself! :D

[Thumponius]

Hey N3ddy!! 4 little words, brother, only 4 little words.



I told you so!!!!!!!!!!

[Thumponius]

Look on the bright side N3ddy, at least you can play Halo 2. MS are only porting it for Vista.

/me drags knuckles down road humming 'always look on the bright side of life' while Eric Idle decides to sharpen a knife and go for a collectors pin.

[Eyewitness]

HA, I installed vista today, without using a key (it never asked for one) and when I started her up it shows that I have a fully legal full version of vista, that I dont remember paying for, I have NOT used the paradox crack.
I am curious as to how microsoft decided I was so speshial. :tard:

[Thumponius]

It wasn't MS. I hear there's a new psychiatric unit doing these things to try to ease the pain of having no drivers, no software and spending hours confirming if you really want to do something.

[Eyewitness]

Ah, that explains it, it was a pain to get my sound working...
But that might have been because I had my headphones plugged in
:o

[Thumponius]

It happens. We set up a server at work and spent 3 hours trying to configure the Raid only to find we'd forgotten to put the Lan cable in for the iScsi box.

Ok, so we had 3 cables in already for the networking but that didn't stop the boss's bitchy comments.

[TG]

I installed an OEM version of vista in a VM for testing purposes. Going to the properties of Computer, it shows that Vista is already activated. Coolness.

[Eyewitness]

and spending hours confirming if you really want to do something.
I got rid of that feature after spending an hour deciding whether or not I wanted to install skype or not, it asked me if I was sure I wanted to...