Crime on the decline!

[SunnyCash]

Well I was just a little read up on the crime in SA and found this...http://www.sagoodnews.co.za/talking_points/safety.html?gclid=CNmWuvbW6JsCFd0B4wodAUUo7A. Basically say's that crime is on the Decline but is still 2-3 times higher than the rest of the world. Not sure how accurate it is since its a report from (South Africa The Good News) and they did NOT! forget to mention the -apartheid injustices-. Sounds a bit fishy 2 me.:(
This site here seems 2 be a lil better but also confirming there is a drop in overall crime in SA...http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/crime-rate-falls-in-south-africa-857763.html.
Here is the link 2 Wikipedia which was last updated for the 1998-2000 period.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_South_Africa

I also heard a report on the BBC news about a week ago that South Africa is in the top five worst violent country's in the world alongside Columbia.:violin:

What ever the statistics are I just don't feel safe there and I do not deny that crime is everywhere and if u live in a major city its just amplified but what I can tell u from personal experience is if u go to the East London beach front and u take a evening walk (anywhere from 8pm) U are very lightly 2 get murdered a higher chance of getting raped (if u a women) and almost guaranteed 2 get mugged (male or female) Now that's not some backwater part of East London it's the beach front for crying out loud. Now Staying in Blackpool which is a very comparable town 2 East London I almost every night go for a walk on the beach front around 11pm-1am and I have allot less fear of something happening. That is fact!;)

[Voicy]

Sunny, you forget that a station commissioner was arrested recently for fraud after 'fixing' the crime stats in his area to make his station look more successful at fighting crime.

Ergo, I don't trust any "declination" stats one bit. And after my courtcase last month I also have NO trust in our law system. The bastage I caught stealing our car sat right behind us the whole time with a smug look on his face, allowed to walk around freely and then just walked out of court when it was his time for trial.

[senorblinky]

What you have to take into consideration is the definition of violent crime, and of course any unreported cases.
So yeah, i dunno.

[SunnyCash]

Yeah there was just a thing on the radio now about a South Africa women in the UK who last Christmas eve was hijacked and left it the boot of the car for 10hours. Now there should never be a funny part 2 any story like that but the irony of it was a South African male who did it and he just got 8 years for it.

Yeah Voicy I agree duder especially since they were threatened with losing the 2010 bid if crime was not dropped. So yeah I guess the police reports are gonna get fixed. *shrug*

Either way its still 2-3 times higher by at least fixed reports 2 give u a idea.

[VuduSA]

To be honest, I do not trust anything they say about crime stats. I work for one of the biggest security companies in the world, trust me, crime is not declining in SA!!!

[Flatty]

Crime is not declining in SA, or any other part of the world, either.

In London, I was:

a) Locked in a barricaded crackhouse with 2 monster black dudes (and another not so monster one) while one of them raped a 13 year old girl - I was unable to do anything about the screams & was told to mind my own business [AND "no" I was not there smoking crack - it was an in transit stop off] They also drew ALL the cash out my ATM. I do get myself into situations.
b) Stabbed 4 times in Central London [Just off Picadilly Circus at a place called Paradise Alley]. Bouncers? Club Owners? Nothing. It was survival at its best.
c) Beaten & Kicked on the ground outside a nightclub by 4 almost adults - luckily the bouncers saved me [one of them was a good friend of mine]

A family friend of ours was held ransom inside a strip club in Soho for 200 Pounds when he was over there. I remember reading about a 90 year old man that was stabbed to death for less than a Pound. A woman that was dragged in off the street close to where I live, raped, tied to an old bed, set on fire, and left to die. An acquaintance of mine was arrested in the pub, where we used to drink, for raping a woman in the graveyard at knife point - she was walking to the train station after having been to see a show at the local theatre.

It doesn't matter where you are, crime is everywhere. True, Blackpool may be a gazillion times safer than East London, but that doesn't mean you should let your guard down. There are deviants in every single part of the world. If I had succumbed to the stabbing in London, and allowed myself to be topped, I can guarantee that nobody would ever have found my body, and I would have just been another statistic. It wouldn't have been in any newspapers, and there would have been no big manhunt for little ol' me. The guys that instigated this are seriously sick - they pick random targets and wipe them out, along with all traces of them.

The point I am trying to make here is, fine, it may be safer in Blackpool where you live, but don't let your guard down. Don't get lulled into a false sense of security because you'll be the first person that gets targeted. Criminals & deviants prey on the weak, the unaware, and the innocent. Just because you're not reading about things in the newspaper doesn't mean they're not happening. There is a big difference between the abilities of first world citizens, and third world citizens to cover their tracks. If nobody knows about a crime, they cannot report it.

When you go on your outings, to London, Amsterdam, Paris, wherever, don't think for one second that you're any safer than if you were walking on the beachfront in East London.

[Badapple]

It is not possible for crime in SA to decline at the moment or the near future.
If you look at the situation in Zimbabwe and the fact that these desperate people are allowed in most cases to freely enter SA, they either take a job from a more useless South African, or they themselves turn to crime to survive.

In the end the issue is that there are too many poor/jobless people and not enough money/jobs. This results in crime, so how the hell can they expect it to be dropping?
This also at the time of the global slow down!

Regarding your comments Flatty, man that is some heavy stuff! that must have had a major effect on you, I am sorry to hear that.
I agree with your points about crime being all over, but in other countries they have the capacity to deal with the crime, not like the joke of a system we have here (as voicy pointed out).

[SunnyCash]

Firstly I DID say that there is crime everywhere and and that is a undeniable fact regardless were u are. That was not my point. My point was that it is so much worse in SA. Secondly holiday destinations and site seeing features in the towns and crack houses don't really make for a fair comparison.
I was talking to a guy in a sport shop about a week back and his 1st question was about the crime in SA. Further down the conversation he asked (since he was now understanding that is is a little worse than in the UK) if the coppers carry stun guns. I just giggled at him. Why because the street coppers here carry a cotch or basically a modern batten. If u wanna see the heavy stuff u will have 2 look to the riot squad. the other thing is take that batten off him and give him a beating and just see how many years u get. It is a huge offense 2 assault a officer here and generally just not found. the other thing is if u commit a crime here there is a pretty good chance u will get caught were as in SA there is a pretty good chance u won't get caught.

You can say what u want but SA is in a bad place as far as crime goes and it is silly 2 even compare the two country because the UK is safer hands down. The other thing I wanna mention is Amsterdam is not in England. From what I understand Ireland can be a pretty dangerous place as well and the French seem 2 hate every one. ;) *shrug*

[Voicy]

In the end the issue is that there are too many poor/jobless people and not enough money/jobs. This results in crime, so how the hell can they expect it to be dropping?
This also at the time of the global slow down!


I hear what you're saying, apple. But there is a clear and distinct difference between theft crimes driven by hunger and hate/violent crimes.

White collar fraud etc. is present worldwide due to greed, but it's the attack on human lives for no valid reason that gets to me.

[Flatty]

Remember that terrosist bombing of the buses & tubes in London a few years back? My nephew was on the tube behind the one that got bombed - they had to walk out the tunnel.

You trade one evil for another, I am afraid. Wonder who's going to get their water supply poisoned - SA or UK? I also wonder who will be a prime target in any terrorist attacks - SA or UK (nuclear, chemical, explosive)?

BTW - I was not in the crackhouse by choice :p It was one circumstance that lead to another, all starting off perfectly innocently, might I add.

One thing I can say. I know we have serious crime in this country & I live in a town where we had 4 armed robberies in one week. I am aware of it, ALL the time.

My point, once again - even if you live in a sleepy town where hardly anything happens - for your own safety & that of those you love, just be a little bit more observant than the next man & you will avoid any unnecessary drama.

Amsterdam not in England? Oh, my golly gosh - I thought it was between London & Brighton. :D So you're going to stay in England for the rest of your life & never, ever, go anywhere? :p

[w1z4rd]

Theres still crime, but I think its nature is changing slowly. I think that we still have a serious crime problem, but I dont think its as bad as some places ...I just finished watching Ross Kemps "Gangs of the world"... and think South Africans like to be a bit dramatic when they we have the worst crime in the world.

The shit that goes down in Brazil and countries like Russia is out of this world bad. I dont want to belittle the crime problem but in perspective.. its not just us suffering.. its a world wide problem and there are lots of countries worse off than us. You should watch Ross Kemps docu on Nigerian pirates.. that country is ... very very broken.

Oh.. on the upside.. apparently we are not the most violent country in the world.. Britain is: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

Nice post sunny.

[Thumponius]

Ah but the English consider a punchup at a pub as an 'Affray' and is thus listed under violent crime. Kinda makes me ponder the shootings and rapes and amputations and ... that I used to attend to as a paramedic on the East Rand. Some of those scenes don't quite make the tourist brochures.

I suppose it also has a lot to do with the societal norms and expectations of the various nations involved in surveys like these and also just what oranges are being compared to what apples.

A guy walking into a jewelry shop in Canterbury ended up having 200 cops hunting for him and he was nailed within 3 hours. It was listed as one the worst armed robberies in Canterbury's history. He had a kitchen knife and asked the 2 women in the shop to please put the jewelry in a bag.

My mother walked into the Dunswart branch of First National Bank on a Saturday morning and after she cleared the mantraps, had a 9mm rammed into the back of her head. There were 14 guys in there with an assortment of assault rifles and firearms. It made a half page in the local Caxton press and a small paragraph in the nationals.

England and Wales had 21000 knife crimes last year of which 0.2% resulted in death. SA had 21000 murders. I'd rather be with the apples, thanks all the same.

Every nation, place, country has crime. Where there are humans there will be a debasing of morals and standards of common decency. The Dutch have tremendous problems with drugs, the English with knife crimes, the French with themselves, Colombians with drugs, the list is endless.

I am truly glad the Flatty is still around to piss me off and the Carrion is still awesomeness itself but I made a personal choice to leave SA. I love the people and the country but my expectations were not met in terms of what I wanted in a society. I do not say one place is better than another but I do actually wish you all well and that nothing as bad as I have seen ever happens to any of you. And funnily enough, that even includes Sabre.

There endeth the sermon.

[SunnyCash]

LoL kitchen knife.

Yeah also I would like 2 know how many knife fights and shootings rapes are actually registered from our townships and places like Parkside, district 6, Alexander, Quigney and so on. Also remember this, All registered act of crime brings SA one step closer to losing 2010 bid. That is what they were threatened with and I am pretty sure if u look into it u will find a few figures have been played with.

What I would like to know is if any one has any genuine ideas on how it can be mended? I mean there has 2 be a way out.

P.S
Also if I remember correctly (and pls correct me if I am wrong since I am not sure) A estimated 1 in 6 rapes are reported in SA.

[w1z4rd]

LoL kitchen knife.

Yeah also I would like 2 know how many knife fights and shootings rapes are actually registered from our townships and places like Parkside, district 6, Alexander, Quigney and so on. Also remember this all registered act of crime brings SA one step closer to losing 2010 bid. That is what they were threatened with and I am pretty sure if u look into it u will find a few figures have been played with.

What I would like to know is if any one has any genuine ideas on how it can be mended? i mean there has 2 be a way out.

Education, social service delivery. Rehauled justice and criminal punishment system. Look at Sweden. Healthiest happiest country in the world with perhaps one of the better social welfare systems I have seen.

The gap between the rich and the poor needs to be reduced and every needs the right education.

[SunnyCash]

Yeah also makes a big difference when u can actually look after you're self on a minimum wage. But having said that I have just been informed via a private wisp that it is rude to rub peoples noses in it so forget what ever I said lets pretend the problem isn't there and maybe it will go away. never meant 2 upset anyone so sorry, my bad.

[Voicy]

Yeah also makes a big difference when u can actually look after you're self on a minimum wage. But having said that I have just been informed via a private wisp that it is rude to rub peoples noses in it so forget what ever I said lets pretend the problem isn't there and maybe it will go away. never meant 2 upset anyone so sorry, my bad.

Please invite that person to partake in our debate. Not talking about it won't make it disappear or any less worse. Besides, it's real heartwarming to know you see yourself in a better place. Especially when considering what a huge mission it was for you and your family to get there and settle in.

I'm jealous (but the good kind.)

---------- Post added at 02:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------


I just finished watching Ross Kemps "Gangs of the world"... and think South Africans like to be a bit dramatic when they we have the worst crime in the world.


You should watch the "law and disorder" documentary that I gave you a while back on the gangs in Jhb. One of the bastages admits on camera that he'd just committed a hijacking that same morning..and goes on in very graphic detail what he's done to people and their kids when they were interrogating them to find money/weapons in the houses they were robbing. It made me sick.

[Nitty]

I can't stand watching things like that. I don't even want to watch the news - it upsets me too much. I can't even hurt something small, nevermind doing stuff like that to human beings. I'm sure they will get back what they dished out sooner or later. Or so I hope...

[Vortex]

95.23% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I think that 99% are the ones made up about crime in SA.. ;)

[Askari]

Yeah there was just a thing on the radio now about a South Africa women in the UK who last Christmas eve was hijacked and left it the boot of the car for 10hours. Now there should never be a funny part 2 any story like that but the irony of it was a South African male who did it and he just got 8 years for it.

I think you will find it was 10 days that she spent in the boot. He also got a life sentence but COULD, if he behaved and did all the other things required to be considered for early parole, theoretically be released after 8 years. Only to be instantly and ceremoniously deported back to the Republic and hopefully straight into one of our jails.

[SlappY]

@Flatty: Dont event begin to tell me they compare. They dont. This place is a f%$*ing war zone. Here it is not a matter of IF but WHEN.