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TG
26th May 2006, 06:57 AM
Good grief, it amazes me at the lack of knowledge that some people have. The problem is, they know things - things that they've heard here and there and have never bothered to research, yet they flaunt it as gospel truth.

For example:



Synchronization across the WAN
Novell hosts an open-source mechanism ‘Rsync’ that can be used to synchronize datasets across a network. The mechanism works on blocks of data rather than files and can be scheduled to occur at a time when the WAN is under-utilised.

This might prove to be more efficient and simpler than tape handling and it is proposed that this be considered, the disadvantage of Open Source being that no vendor support is available. It is proposed, however, that if the product solves the problem elegantly and efficiently then we might be willing to put measures into place to manage the resultant risk.


My main point of contention being the bit in green.

My response was as follows:



Proposed RSync solution:

I have a depth of experience regarding this program, and unfortunately it is most definitely NOT a reliable process on the Novell platform.
While it is an extremely stable and reliable program on its native Linux/Unix platform, the Novell port has issues with stability - it has a nasty habit of crashing entire servers.
ALSO, it does NOT fully support the Novell file system, meaning that Novell specific file / directory attributes are lost, and need to be saved / restored with additional utilities, which adds to the complexity of the process.

Also, while not entirely relevant, there seems to be a misconception that open source products do not have vendor support. Completely untrue. There are many open source products out there that have the support of vendors, usually for a small fee, but not always.

Please direct your web browser to http://www.opensource.org to educate yourselves regarding the concept behind the Open Source initiative.

From the FAQ:
Isn't it hard to get reliable support for open-source software?

Absolutely not! InfoWorld's 1997 "Best Product of the Year" roundup should have demolished this myth once and for all. Read the article (http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayTC.pl?/97poy.supp.htm) to see their analysis, including this quote:

... readers who are using Linux in a business environment said they found the support they received to be far more impressive than what they were used to with commercial software.

Linux is not an exception. In fact, business users will generally find that mature open-source products are far more reliable (http://www.opensource.org/advocacy/case_for_business.php) to begin with, and that when support is needed it is dramatically cheaper and easier to get than from closed vendors.

doobiwan
26th May 2006, 10:38 AM
Blanket assumptions are a pain in the a$$. :(

sss
26th May 2006, 11:45 AM
this is why i write my own software!

stoke
26th May 2006, 11:54 AM
I've got a really cool example of MS BS:
Take a good look at the Microsoft Enterprise Library 2006 ...
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/?url=/library/en-us/dnpag2/html/EntLib2.asp

Every single feature in there is now provided in DotNet 2.0 natively but in a different way.
Yet I still get top MS morons trying to get me to use the Enterprise Library.
Fsking morons.

TG .. Paragraph one was awesome then you smudged the issues .. you should have ended your reply after paragraph one.

Alluvium
26th May 2006, 12:02 PM
thats why i get other people to write software for me ;)

sss
26th May 2006, 12:20 PM
this is why people pay me to write software!

doobiwan
26th May 2006, 12:21 PM
. . .And that's why I get people to pay me to write software for them ;)
[Doh! Concurrent threading issues! ;) ]

Stoke, I had a VERY bad experience with the EL for v1.1, and I'd be loathe to use it again. (Nuke the App process for our web app without even an error)

Having said that, Simple wrappers are a good thing. I'm current .NET OSS whoring on he project I'm working on RSS.NET, OpenRico / Atlas, Monorail all really good ideas, that save me days of work.

stoke
26th May 2006, 02:20 PM
Franks 4 da tips doobi ... :p
No seriously ... thanks.

Sminty
26th May 2006, 04:16 PM
this is why people pay me to write software!

LOL yes, as long as there are suckers out there I'll continue to be paid to write stuff that makes PC's do stuff...what a racket...hehe

Pios
26th May 2006, 04:43 PM
I like that, hence i get to have cool new shiny toys :)

Keep up the programming ..
We like it ..!!!

Megnut3025
27th May 2006, 12:18 PM
@TG... :woot: YOU GO GEEK!! :woot: I think your response was brilliant!! People should not respond to questions unless they actually know what they are talking about!! They could end up confusing unsuspecting trusting Nuts like myself!! :)

doobiwan
31st May 2006, 09:53 AM
@Stoke, almost forgot. If there's one app that I've learned to appreciate (and almost can't live without) in the last year it's Codesmith (Code Generation), version 2.6 is still free,
http://codesmithtools.com/freeware.aspx

Can you say 3 tier architecture for 106 entities in 2 minutes?

My next thing is to understand their Architecture ".nettiers". So far I've been using a custom one.

Pios
31st May 2006, 10:00 AM
I prefer My Generation.

But then again that is just my oppinion. + its FREE for the lastest versions.

http://www.mygenerationsoftware.com/portal/default.aspx

PS. Does the same as CS.

Cheers
Pios

stoke
31st May 2006, 10:56 AM
Uh hu ... 3 tier ... LOLLIES !
Yup ... codesmith is hextremely valuable.

I'm in the process of disproving 3 Tier for once and all [again].
I recon it's inflexible, slow, retarded, useless, costs a fortune to build, costs a fortune to maintain and - a single simple stupid app can be scaled sideways at a much cheaper cost.

doobiwan
31st May 2006, 01:17 PM
@PIOS I looked at MyGen for a bit, very nice, very powerful, but:
1. I got to Codesmith first, it's simple.
2. I found most of the MyGen samples were in VB.NET, I'm more inclinded towards C#, if you know otherwise I'm keen to pick your brain ;)

@Stoke - 3-tier has it's place, If your doing simple desktop apps maybe not so much, but if your building and Enterprise Bus / Business processing Engine, with multiple consumers, crosscuts, SOA etc (I'm outa buzzwords :p ) Then it keeps things clean. Using Code Gen takes a HUGE chunk out of the grind otherwise associated with n-tier.

for example, at my previous employee, using just a single well defined table structure we gen'd all the way from Stored procs to Web Service Interface and everything inbetween including partial/abstract classes for customization.

All that in about a minute.

SlappY
1st June 2006, 05:19 PM
@stoke: Problem is these days peeps get anal about tiering. I see it as a logical division first rather than a physical one. Tiny apps may have the tiers in a single class, larger ones can have em in different cities, point is the design of tiering allows you to scale easily, also makes reverse engineering and debugging a breeze. Try a top down decomposition on a monolithic design, it will end in tears (pun... I think not).

I myself rather go for n-tier stuff. Probably cause I write for enterprise. I have just designed a enterprise model that will allow you to TOTALLY redesign your database with zero downtime! And changes propogate from DB right through to UI by only making a change on one tier (it is truly a magical experience).

Point is stuff like this is unheard of in single tier. Every app, and I mean every one you can logically recursively decompose into 3 layers. Calling layer, logic layer and API (tool set) layer. Once you got that in your head the rest is a piece of piss!

stoke
1st June 2006, 05:29 PM
Slappy ... I'm interested ... what'd you say your rate was ? 260 an hour ?