Officer Discussion: Ranks and goals

[senorblinky]

Thread Disclaimer:

This is an officer discussion, there is no longer such a thing as a private thread, so as guild members, you can participate (or at the very least, you can follow) in the conversation. However, this is a serious officer discussion thread, aimed at getting an outcome on an issue, so if your post does not add value, or you're here to muck around, your post will be deleted. Your suggestions will be considered, but the officer's decisions is final - correspondence will happily be entered into, but we can be mean, sarcastic bitches, so think twice before you do

Hello Team

Ok, so last night Dormethan came to us and complained about being a plain member and not an Alumni member. He originally spoke to Hoss, who subsequently referred him to me (thanks buddy) and after he didn't get his way with me, he started working on Nitty.

Hoss, Nitty and I had a discussion about the goings on in the officer channel last night, so the three of us are relatively up to speed, but now the question of rank is something we need to discuss and put to bed, just so that we are all on the same page.

The Facts:
Alumni Rank - The Alumni rank was created for those members that basically followed the disbanding of the WrG on the website and pledged their commitment to the new guild on the day of its inception. Like the olympics, if you were online during the Olympics and participated in one BG, it didn't matter if you won or lost, you got the competitors tabard, which Blizzard is labelling as a "feat of strength", since the Olympics is a special occasion every four years (well, actually two, but i'm sure you follow my point) If everyone had a tabard, it would cease to be special, similarly, if everyone achieved the alumni rank, what's the point? It would cease to be special. I do not have to defend my decisions, but I will add that my best friends (TG, Crossie, Gascan, Carri as examples - Vudu and Sonnie already got in arly enough to get their ranks ) who did a hell of a lot in the old WrG guild, and who are close, personal friends of mine, do not have the Alumni rank, and will in all likelihood never get it (but like mature adults, i'm sure they understand why this is the case)

Alumni Rank is for all intents and purposes closed, and only the alts of current Alumni members will be promoted to that rank.

Veteran Rank- So far, we have no vets, and for very good reason. I want Chess Clubbers to work for the rank. Currently, ranks are kinda pointless, we are only 14 or 15 people at the moment, with a nice average of 7 to 12 on every night. But once we get to be 40 members again, with 30 online at average, then the veteran rank will be beneficial to the guild, but also to the individual members who work at attaining it.

As per our conversation last night, i think we need to highlight clear goals (like all achievements in WoW, it's listed and it's clear what you have to do, you don't run around guessing how to get an achievement), but we also have to discuss the potential perks of achieving that rank. Currently, the only advantages of ranks is the value you add to them, or the access you have to the GB, but i mean, that's ridiculous, so we need to figure out perks so that guildies also feel like they achieved something when they get the Vet Status in TKCC. Raiding for example - i was thinking that veteran members have preference when booking for raids. (IE There is a raid scheduled for friday, a member books Monday, a veteran books Wednesday, and pending group composition, a member would have to sit out to make space for the veteran, understand?) My example my sound rash now, but i mean, being flippen 10 people online it won't make a difference now, but having thirty online, can you imagine how fantastic it would be if these chaps did the work to get that Vet status?

But what is the work? Well, we need to define criteria. I don't think timelines are necessarily an issue at this point, especially since some game seriously and others have the relaxed approach, i don't want to impose restrictions that influences you play style. So here's what i think would make the most sense:

1. Level 80 - a must?
2. GB donations - at least 500 gold or the mats equivalent thereof (though i'm hesitant to include mats, i don't want 4 million bronze tubes in there)
3. Player assistance - Designating a portion of your playtime to other players (not your direct friends), whether it's boosting them through low level instances, helping them with achievements (that you don't need), helping them out with materials to level their profession, helping them with crafted gear at level 80 (Thumpy is a good example, he never charges for the crafted gear he makes, and he's spends thousands like this), coming to their aid when ganked, or just going on a farm run with them - and example of a farm run is when Voicy joined me as i was mining for iron on one of my chars (low level one) but he mined all the mithril and truesilver and silver, because i was too low a level. When i was done, he gave me everything he mined for me to smelt and consequently up my skill.

Those are the three things i see to build a strong, but more importantly COHESIVE guild, if everyone strived to be a better guild mate to their guild mates.


Well, i think that's everything i wanted to discuss today.


I ask you, my dear officers, to take a look at he points and respond in kind, remember, nothing that i said in this post is FINAL without your contributions first, so i want to hear from you;
1. What other perks should vets have (like, they're the only ones eligible for the stokvel every month and the raid booking)
2. What criteria do we impose for members to become vets, and do we create ANOTHER rank above vets for the SUPERHUMAN vets? (and then just give this rank to someone who has gone above and beyond?)
3. Criteria - can we make more suggestions than what i listed, and if we're happy with what i listed, can we refine it perhaps and make it clear? i mean, helping a guildy can be a minor thing you do once a month, or a big part of your day to day play.
4. And of course, is there anything else you would like to raise in this forum?


Also, if anyone needs reference, i did take screenshots of my conversation with Dormethan last night if anyone would like to read it, Nitty, i asked you to do the same, but that shouldn't really carry any weight in terms of your thoughts or decisions in this thread.

Looking forward to your inputs team!

[Nitty]

Thank you for this post Blinky. I will have a better look at it tonight & respond. Sorry I'm a bit hectic at work today

[Hoss]

Alumni Rank vs. Veteran Rank

I feel after all the discussions last night, that the Alumni rank is now closed. It should be realized by all members (and impressed upon them if they don't seem to get it) that this rank is merely an "achievement". A very small gesture on our part as officers to say thank you to those members that were there at the genesis of our guild; not genesis + 1 week. It doesn't work like that. It will serve you NO better when it comes to raids, guild bank access, etc etc than the Veteran rank. And I'll tell you why I say this. Its because I feel the veteran rank has to be the highest rank achievable from now on (for the foreseeable future). No superhuman ranks or anything of that sort. Like Blinky has said we don't even have vets at the moment. It is no small feat reaching this status; let alone feeling you can skip this and go straight to Alumni. Maybe just maybe Alumni can become available to members in the future, if we see a new development taking place, or Jim Morrison is found to still be alive, but that will be up to the leadership to decide, if we feel something new is needed.

I don't think timelines are necessarily an issue at this point, especially since some game seriously and others have the relaxed approach, i don't want to impose restrictions that influences you play style. So here's what i think would make the most sense:

Here I agree. timeliness are difficult and I dont want to see criteria that will change the way you love playing this game. Obviously you should contribute to the team if you want to move up the ranks of that team. If that wasn't your gaming style, positions in guilds would mean nothing to you surely?

1. Level 80 - a must?

Yes I feel it is a must. There is no point in having access to raids; higher level tabs etc etc yet you don't even have an lvl 80. And the bar will obviously be raised, come the expansion, to lvl 85 for those new members coming into the guild

2. GB donations - at least 500 gold or the mats equivalent thereof (though i'm hesitant to include mats, i don't want 4 million bronze tubes in there)

I'm also not sure here. I stuck 1 or 2 Frost Lotus in the bank last night, but I don't even know if anyone will find it of use. Gold however is always easy. If we have a player desperately in need of a loan to finance a new mount or some such, the money can always come in handy. If you need a copper tube or a frost lotus you can go farm that or its mats in 10 minutes IMO or ask your mate which brings us to the next point...

3. Player assistance - Designating a portion of your playtime to other players (not your direct friends), whether it's boosting them through low level instances, helping them with achievements (that you don't need), helping them out with materials to level their profession, helping them with crafted gear at level 80.

Yes yes yes. I am however uncertain of how one would police this. Supplying mats to mates so they can have stuff made, or level a profession for me is almost more important than boosts.

1. What other perks should vets have (like, they're the only ones eligible for the stokvel every month and the raid booking)

I feel these perks can be determined as we go along. The guild is still young, and as we said earlier, we don't even have vets yet. The one thing however is that Alumni and Vets must get the same rights except for some very special occasions ( and I mean special occasions)

2. What criteria do we impose for members to become vets, and do we create ANOTHER rank above vets for the SUPERHUMAN vets? (and then just give this rank to someone who has gone above and beyond?)

I'm pretty much opposed to anything higher than Vet. I would consider creating something between Member and Vet. I just feel that a new member gets put onto trial for a two week period. After those two weeks he gets bumped up to the same level as someone that has been around a while and but has not yet cracked the nod for Vet status. But at the end of the day maybe I'm just arguing semantics. My concern will just be that if we are going to create a rank above Vet while the Vets essentially have the same rights as Alumni, it would result in SUPERHUMAN vets, essentially out ranking an Alumni. But like I said, semantics.

3. Criteria - can we make more suggestions than what i listed.

I can't really think of anything. I feel we need to look at the gold donation. Is it a once off? Then I would like to see something higher. It's pointless have a guild bank that can only finance 1 or 2 items for members because it so bloody poor
I do feel that any criteria that is set down should not be set in stone. We have seen some people that could have easily met the criteria set out above but in the mean while they are causing kak elsewhere. The recent issue with the member and his hacked account comes to mind. I feel that the largest criteria will be that the leadership must be convinced of the players character, in spite of any of the above criteria being met.

[senorblinky]

Hoss, you make a couple of very, very nice points.
Ok, so we wait to hear from my man Thumpy and The Nitzor. It's an important thing that you mentioned about character, and i believe it goes without saying. I like where your head is at.

[senorblinky]

Also, speaking of ranks, one thing we've never been able to define is trial periods and evaluation, we need to get concrete guidelines for these, not just two weeks in a holding pen.

[Nitty]

Thank you Blinky & Hoss for your efforts with this thread This is my take on everything:

Alumni rank is closed. End of story. If I can quote Blinky from the very first thread about TKCC and how it will work with the Alumni rank:
"It was an idea I was toying with, marking the members who were there right in the beginning to help get us on our feet, and since the WrG will be disbanded tonight (Wednesday, 7 October, 2009), we will not dole out that title after tonight (IE, everyone that logs on tonight and joins the guild will have the privileges of the Alumni rank)"

Lesson to be learnt here: Read the forums

Veteran rank should be worked for. It is earned, not a given. I'm with Hoss that you only become a Veteran when you reach 80 (and later 85). It's something to work on and look forward to.

As for putting gold in the GB, I don't think your membership should be "bought" with gold. Anything you think other guildies can use to make their lives easier should go into the GB. Whether it be mats, recipes, gear, jewels - whatever you can spare and is worthwhile to somebody else.

Player assistance is very nice to have, and I'm with Blinky that it shouldn't just be for your friends. If you see somebody reaching a level and you know there's a nice instance that you can boost him through - go for it. Maybe you make a new friend in the process

Veterans and Alumni should have similar perks, seeing that it will be impossible to achieve Alumni rank for now.

Just to make it clear, we have the following ranks:
Douchebag
Trial
Member
Veteran
Alumni

I think there are enough ranks for now. If we see that we are short of one, something between Member and Veteran will be a good place to put it.

Remember: The people are what MAKES a guild. It's about the greater good of the guild, not always about your own character growing. I'm not saying stop levelling altogether and donate your life to the guild. Just be concious of the other people as well

Also: Just like in real life, you go a lot further when you are honest about your intentions and your stories match from day to day

Most of all: Have fun

[Arbythep00nage]

From an outside perspective i agree with Hoss. you can feel free to delete this but the Alumni rank as he put was a once off.


Blinky says:
Nah, i won't delete it, you don't play WoW and even you get the picture

[Thumponius]

Alumni: closed.

Veteran rank: those members that show their hearts are in the right place and at least think of the guild and its members in their doings and actions. Earned and voted on by the officers. The GM has the decisive call (you wanted it, you got it! Hehehe).

Helping out: put what you feel is useful into the GB. It's up to you. I don't believe in dictating this type of thing. It must be up to the individual and their own sense of fairplay.

Ranks: there are enough to confuse people with for now. We can always put another one in if people start feeling they have a handle on things.

Player assistance: you reap what you sow. Enough said.

The guild is about a bunch of peeps having fun in a fairly comfortable environment. If you act like a smacktard, we will caution and warn. Continue to detract from the enjoyment of your fellow guild mates and you could end up being asked (firmly!) to not let the door hit you in the arse on the way out. I don't like doing it but I will if it means that everyone can also have fun. There are no cliques or inner circles. I am not prejudiced, I detest everyone equally. I sometimes play and when I do, I want to enjoy it and have fun. Enough said.

Be cool, be mellow and enhance everyones' calm.

[senorblinky]

Nice Thumps, very nice.

Look, if we can just quickly discuss trial conditions, we can avoid smacktardery.
I'm sorry to say but clan members were once let in to guildness, the kicker was, they may have been awesome BF2ers and be terrible guildies, conversely, good guildies could've been or could be terrible BF2ers.

The kicker is, this is a new guild. A vouch from a member will get you a trial. i even want to put WrG clan members up for trial, since TKCC runs separately from the guild - but that's up for officer vote (IE a TG for example would not need to endure trial, EVERYONE knows him and he has WoW experience)

So yeah, let's discuss trial, cause i believe a stringent but fun trial will ensure that people who get in stay in, and we weed out smacktards.

Though, my idea of success is getting more family and personal friends in.

[TG]

I'm reading this thread with interest. I was going to refrain from commenting, but just wanted to add my very brief half cent... if I were to apply to the guild (assuming I started playing WoW again of course), I would be more than happy to go through the trial period.